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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: May 31, 2010 9:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

Well I would imagine that if you can film drowning people you can rescue them, I would think that if you can drill a well you should be ale to plug it. I'm kind of thinking that no one has the answer for the oil spill but Katrina was pretty f-ing obvious.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: May 31, 2010 9:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

You would think , but no . Depth of 1 mile , on an uneven 'ocean ' floor , leaking in multiple areas , on a sideways , 45' angle pipe . Of all the above . it's the pressure ( depth ) that is a real tough nut . Humans operate in space much better then 1 mile down in the water . Very limited in time and functionality down there . There is no high % way to cap , as of today .

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Poster: barongsong Date: May 31, 2010 10:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

So, Golly gee, I guess drilling isn't as safe as they've been telling us. No safety net mechanics and no way to fix it. This is as bad as the dumb-ass that created an artificial mud volcano in Java, http://www.thebalitimes.com/2010/05/28/java-mud-volcano-still-gushing-four-years-on/ and we just chalked it up to lax Indonesian regulations. Go figure

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Poster: micah6v8 Date: Jun 1, 2010 6:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

This is the extreme edge of drilling tech. from what I have been able to glean . I am not an engineer nor in the oil biz . so it's just 'book ' knowledge.
The arguement stands . To Easy to just cast stones . What kind of ' house ' would you build to replace oil with , to meet our growing energy needs ?

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Jun 1, 2010 6:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

I don't disagree but I think that is a different argument than the one that is being discussed here. I don't think the question is why do we need to drill a mile down in the gulf, the question was more about how it is being reported on.

For example on April 2nd after signing the energy bill that allowed more off-shore drilling, President Obama made the following statement regarding the safety of wells. ""It turns out, by the way, that oil rigs today generally don’t cause spills. They are technologically very advanced."

The question is whether it is appropriate to call such a statement Obama's "the fundamentals of the economy are sound" moment. I agree with Purple Gel that it is lazy to make these comparisons and frankly they don't solve anything.

As for your question I think the other part is how much oversight do these companies that profit from our inability to curb our energy addition have? Not just oil. Don't forget those coal miners who died several weeks back in what appeared to be a very unsafe work environment.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jun 1, 2010 1:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead) / Coal Miners

Oh , come all you young fellows , so young and so fine
Seek not your fortune in a dark , dreary mine
It'll form as a habit , and seep in your soul
Till the stream of your blood runs as black as the coal
Merle Travis

This post was modified by micah6vs8 on 2010-06-01 20:26:43

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Poster: ducats Date: Jun 1, 2010 2:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead) / Coal Miners

milk blood to keep from running out

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jun 1, 2010 12:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead) / Coal Miners

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nhc55qjHHXs (for the miners)

And why he was on No Nukes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b54rB64fXY4&;NR=1

BTW, Clive's first signee to Arista.

This post was modified by bluedevil on 2010-06-01 19:03:30

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Jun 1, 2010 4:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

Does our growing energy demand outweigh the need for healthy food and water?

These needs do not have to be mutually exclusive. It is possible to make a transition to clean energy sources, but this will come at some cost because our current way of life is built upon and around the use of dirty cheap energy sources. It will take a significant and costly restructuring to move away from this.

The costs of this transition will be used by energy companies and the people they pay as well as the people who naive enough to believe them to dissuade us from and work to slow this inevitable process. The corporations in the energy industry are scared of any change in the status quo which will reduce the demand for what they are profiting from.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Jun 3, 2010 2:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

"What kind of ' house ' would you build to replace oil with , to meet our growing energy needs ? "

To make the analogy work you'd have to consider how long it took to build the house of oil -- then give solar, renewables, efficiency, and new tech as much "incentives" and tax breaks as oil, gas, and coal.

You'd be shocked to find out how much has been given to oil, gas, and coal -- and that's apart from the cost of pollution because that cost is barely reflected in the price of oil.

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Poster: ledlightingwholesale Date: Jun 15, 2012 12:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

Actually I wouldn't be shocked. We spend enormous amounts of money on the least eco-friendly and energy inefficient solutions I have ever seen. If we focused more attention on energy saving sustainable products like Wind Power, Solar Power and LED Lighting the planet would be in much better shape.
http://www.ledlightingwholesale.com

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jun 1, 2010 8:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

I'll cast stones - from what I have heard from people in the oil biz up here is in their opinion the preventer was installed backwards on purpose to get it to fit ie they new it was defective and wouldn't fit the correct way. Now this is just a perzsons opinion but what isn't opinion is if they had been actually checking it ( not pencil whipping it ) then they would have seen it was bad.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jun 1, 2010 11:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

But why poop in your own house ? Yeah , I know , general human stupidity . But here are some consequences already . Penny wise for billions foolish perhaps ?
From WSJ today( one of the last remaining papers doing their job , PG )
BP stock price down 12 % today , knocking off 17 billion of BP 's market value . Today's estimate is that BP 's liability is 990 million for the oil leak in the Gulf . That number will change , only going much higher . Insuring BP's debt has also become much harder for them , as banks jack their rates and credit is much harder to obtain . London is very concerned over this , as many large funds are heavily invested in BP . The Gulf supplies 14 % of BP's worldwide production , and renewal of their future licensing contracts is highly in doubt . And this is the beginning of the beginning .

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Poster: headgdhead Date: Jun 2, 2010 12:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

BP has lost $70 billion in equity since this thing started. The conspiracy theorists are so far out in left field on this one it's just ridiculous. There is no upside for the oil company taking short cuts or cheaping out on these ventures.

I don't ever agree with Obama but he was right and is right about the safety of these rigs. The record proves it. There are over 5000 wells in the Gulf, 500 of them are deep sea wells, and only one of them is leaking. That's a pretty damn good record!

No one goes through life perfect. The priority here is plugging the leak and cleaning up this mess. The time for investigations and prosecutions will come. Please remember that tens of thousands of people are dependant on these companies for their existence. Tearing them apart through ridiculous accusations and endless speculation directly affects people’s lives.

"Think this through with me, let me know your mind
Wo-oh, what I want to know is, are you kind?"

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Poster: headgdhead Date: Jun 2, 2010 12:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

BP has lost $70 billion in equity since this thing started. The conspiracy theorists are so far out in left field on this one it's just ridiculous. There is no upside for the oil company taking short cuts or cheaping out on these ventures.

I don't ever agree with Obama but he was right and is right about the safety of these rigs. The record proves it. There are over 5000 wells in the Gulf, 500 of them are deep sea wells, and only one of them is leaking. That's a pretty damn good record!

No one goes through life perfect. The priority here is plugging the leak and cleaning up this mess. The time for investigations and prosecutions will come. Please remember that tens of thousands of people are dependant on these companies for their existence. Tearing them apart through ridiculous accusations and endless speculation directly affects people’s lives.

"Think this through with me, let me know your mind
Wo-oh, what I want to know is, are you kind?"

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Jun 1, 2010 9:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

I'll cast my stone right with ya Jots - the oil industry and the government are so entrenched under the same sheets, you cannot tell one from the other anymore.

Our government is an absolute disgrace and an embarrassment - no matter who the great people of this country vote into office, the result always seems to come out the same. the populace and our environment get screwed every time!

Mando is most assuredly on the right track....

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jun 1, 2010 9:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

yeah well don't throw the baby out with the bathwater I say. Example - FDA, they don't always do such a swell job with Food and drugs but what's the alternative? Self or market policing as the Libertarians like to fantasize about? YEAH RIGHT! And I know from first hand experience that the FDA is VERY good at regulating blood products which are extremely safe now as a result. IMO we need to see what is working regulatory wise and model after that. We need to remember that Government isn't a sperate private entity, us lazy citizens need to get more invol;ved, more than just by voting.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Jun 1, 2010 9:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

the baby most likely wont get thrown out with the bathwater, but the baby is certainly starting to drown. i agree the FDA is basically pretty good at getting things right (if a bit too slow at times), as is the EPA (not perfect, but...) yes, i was being a bit hyperbolic in my post about the government being basically useless - they are just too easy to buy. lobbyists and lying have run amok - it is going to be VERY difficult "fixing" that - there has never been a government in world history (as far as i know) that money and greed has not basically "run the show."

i dont know what the alternative is either. but the path down which this country is headed WILL force change upon us at some point - and it is probably going to be a very difficult chnge in the beginning. it may be after our lifetime, but probably within the lives of our children.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jun 1, 2010 10:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

" i dont know what the alternative is either"

imo the alternative is for people to wake the f up and stop defending this corporate takeover of the government. People need to stop believing the bullshit. PRIME example, people love to wave their plastic made in China American flags but can't seem to make the connection between war and $$$$$. Anyone who thinks corporations are totally out of control with what they get away with is automatically branded a " socialist", people actually think the media is " liberal" and yet the only real news is buried down on public broadcasting that MOST people don't watch.

The bottom line is people are very easily preyed upon with emotion to direct their anger at the wrong sources and to defend entities that will sell their ass out in a second. Look how crazy the evangelicals can get - they vote soley on these BS moral causes but the people they vote for KNOW that they have no intention of banning abortion etc but these fools keep voting against their own interests just because of the lip servce given to their pet cause.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Jun 1, 2010 11:02am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

I could not agree with you any more wholeheartedly!!!

sad to think it will take an economic catastrophe far worse than last/this year's to truly even attempt to do anything (or so it seems to me, from what i have seen so far)

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Jun 1, 2010 8:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

Has anyone stopped to consider that the two relief drilling efforts are, umm, also wells? Hope they use the right BOPs on those.

What pisses me off about this is how both sides are trying to make political capital out of a disaster. None of those disingenuous fucks on Capitol Hill could give a rat's ass about the people affected in the Gulf. Just as long as they can either manufacture more votes for themselves and/or less votes for the "other" side.

I personally can't wait for the confluence of events, the "Perfect Storm" of Peak Oil and our National Debt to cause such a systemic shock that ouor way of life changes. Not because it's a good idea but simply because it must change.

Got Community?

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jun 1, 2010 11:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

Financially , it feels like 1787 in France . Got seeds , community , and firearms ? No survivalist foaming mouth here , just looking at the landscape of debt . Black Swan events happen suddenly and rock your world ( Black Swan theory by Nassim Taleb ) . We are getting closer to either massive tax hikes , eviscerating spending cuts or monetizing the debt . For a picture of the latter I refer you to the Weimar Republics' 1923 hyper - inflation ( the cruelest tax of all ). Bring a wheelbarrow of paper money for that milk and bread . One way or another.......

BTW - we as a people need to stop using our children and grandchildren as credit cards . It's unseemly , unconscionable , and history will cast it's eye to us in a most unflattering way . We are better then this .

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Jun 1, 2010 2:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

Micah -

I have gone on about this at great length in many past posts. It has been a central point of study for the past 7 years for me.

The only objection - no, that's too strong and negative sounding - let's try "observation", is that your verb tense is wrong.

The Federal Reserve has already monetized our debt. It is their only option now IMO. The only possible way to walk back from the brink of Weimar, Argentina and Zimbabwe is to monetize and inflate our way out of this mess. The trick is managing the ensuing inflationary pressure. In theory it can work. But then we go back to business as usual with Keynesian economics and the whold debt based monetary system reasserts itself and the cycle repeats.

The reality is the idiocracy on Capitol Hill will only see another pool of liquidity to borrow against - and the hole will get deeper.

I would give the chance of success a generous 5%-10% chance of success. The same knot heads who got us in this mess are the same ones to lead us out?????

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jun 1, 2010 3:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

Mando ,
I agree that my verb tense Is probably wrong . Just my ( futile ? ) glass half - full general approach . Can we please have FoI and total transparency re: the Fed . It seems we have slid to an awful mercantile - capitalist system ; where the state decides who is to big to fail and who isn't . Where the state is also a competitor against private concerns - while the state has the ultimate rainy day fund as a backstop , and can thus never be bested by price , efficiency , or better service . And to some of our business people , What's the deal , good year you keep the profits , bad year " too big to fail " . That Ain't working for me .
However , do you trust any of these people to handle the post - monetizing of the debt , and the insane hyper- inflation that would follow . I do not . I long since left Keynesian theory . Might I rec. F. A. Hayek and his book, The Road to Serfdom . Ludwig von Mises work I also recommend .

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Poster: spacedface Date: Jun 3, 2010 2:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

The "Austrians" have some good points about business cycles, but what the town has no need to be nervous about the reincarnation of the Hayak and von Mises horse.

Hayak's support of Pinochet is enough proof, but consider also he was inspiration to Milton Friedman, Reagan, Bush. And Ron Paul has some good criticisms of American govt but avoids the real issues of the public and private spheres.

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Jun 2, 2010 9:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

Michah -

A true capitalistic society could easily fnction on its own - assuming of course that the monetary system that fuels the engine is based on sovereign credit instead of being loaned into existence as debt. That is our current model and it sucks. Exacerbating things is the fact that the organization charged with oversight of our debt based system - the Fed - isn't transparent. One could argue that the Central Banking system has outlived its usefulness - like unions and the Designated Hitter.

Hayek's "Serfdom" is a good work but a little doomer for me. I think the resiliency of the American people (and other countries) is greatly underestimated. We just haven't had a big enough systemic shock to force meaningful change within the system. Such a shock isn't going to happen until we reach a tipping point of awareness of just how fooked up things are.

I think you are starting to see the first rumblings in the Tea Party Movement. I'm not a Tea Party guy, I am a pure Constitutionalist. Mainstream Media is still trying to marginalize the Tea Party crowd as a fad and they might be right. Early on if you asked the "average" Tea Party bubba what they are all fired up about they will tell you "I'm mad" but they can't elaborate or qualify what it is they are mad about. Now, it seems like more and more of them (and us) are fed up with business as usual in DC. There is a growing sense that "business as usual" is part of the problem and as such, I would expect people to mount very successful runs at incumbents.

Once these people realize that the single largest threat to our National Security is our $100 trillion plus debt (obligated and unobligated) more and more will realize that the size of our Federal government and its runaway spending practices are the sole cause I would expect a top to bottom house cleaning.

Throw in the fact that there is no more cheap and easily available oil - all the oil that there was to discover in the world was discovered by 1964 - and that our "leaders" have absolutely no clue or forward vision on workable renewable energy alternatives and we have the ingredients for the "Perfect Storm".

The cool thing is - even if we don't do anything the problem solves itself. The debt machine will collapse under its own weight and when there is no more oil, we will be forced to figure something else out. How's that for true nonpartisanship?

First Iceland, then Greece, with Spain and Portugal waiting in the wings? How long before people wake up and realize that our debt burden is 700 times our GDP? Greece's was only 135%. We may be a big heavy domino, but we are just another domino in the chain that will surely fall.

And I'm not sure von Mises and his Austrian school is the right answer because they still allow for the issuance of credit (as debt) and we all know where that model ends up.

Great discussion.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jun 3, 2010 3:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

Mando -
Sorry if this is too late but I've been thinking about your post . A few questions - How do you create seed capitol for private concerns without debt ? And the state will always issue bonds , even with a balanced budget . How do handle liquidity without credit ?

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Jun 8, 2010 9:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

Micah -

I'm even later with the response - damn 3 day weekends.

It's pretty easy actually. Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution gives Congress the authority to "coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of Weights and Measures." It also says that Congress will have the power to "borrow money on the 'credit' of the United States.

If the money was originally created as sovereign credit, borrowing against something that already has value is easy. We would also need to change the fractional banking system to actually require the banks to hold more of the sovereign credit money that is deposited. The problem we are all now familiar with is when you take existing debt and come up with derivatives of the original debt, and then create more derivatives.

So if this money were created as sovereign credit - meaining it would have to be used to "buy" things - it would then circulate as money with purchasing power. Instead, for whatever reason, money today is loaned into existence as interest bearing debt, or a claim on someone's future labor. By itself that might be okay except Congress abdicated their responsibility for oversight of this process and gave it a central banking system known as the Federal Reserve. There is nothing 'federal" about the Fed. We desperately need to shine a bright light on that den of cockroaches.

All that said, I don't think the framers of our Constitution ever envisioned a Congress so inept that collectively they couldn't pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were written on the sole.

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